Can the Guardians make a trade to acquire starting pitching depth? (Podcast) (2024)

CLEVELAND, Ohio — While the Guardians await word on the latest injury to a starting pitcher, the club’s focus could be shifting toward finding a trade partner to bolster their battered rotation.

On Monday’s podcast, Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga discuss a few names of veteran pitchers who could be available on the trade market if Cleveland decides to make a deal.

Listen and read along with an AI-generated transcript of the podcast below.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Joe Noga (00:15):

Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes Hoey. Fresh off a trip to Miami back home for the off day. Lots of sun, lots of sand, lots of sharks down there in Miami. The guardians win two out of three against the Marlins and had a close encounter with a fish of the fin kind at the beach. What’d you take away from the trip to Miami?

Paul Hoynes (00:45):

Yeah, Joe, it seemed like a fun trip for the team. It was a family trip, so the players and the coaches and I think the staff members all brought their wives and kids and they stayed in Biscayne Bay at a resort there. They were in the water and on Friday, I guess Friday morning before while everyone was swimming, they had a visitor that swam by and kind of checked out the proceedings. Ben Lively was in the water and saw the shark swim by. He got out of the water and started to ask quietly telling the kids to get out of the water. He said it wasn’t really a big shark, it was about four feet long. He called it a tow chopper and I guess he’s had experience with sharks. His dad is a commercial fisherman, a deep sea fisherman, takes tours out and he said he’s seen every kind of fish, but so he wasn’t really too concerned about it and so I think everybody got out of the water safely.

Joe Noga (02:04):

Yeah, cooler heads prevailed. Nobody started screaming and they didn’t have to go and get a bigger boat. I loved. Right. Your jaws reference in the lead to the story there, but not all the news was great for Ben Lively coming out of this weekend. As you got on your plane to come home last night, there was an unexpected companion along for the ride.

Paul Hoynes (02:29):

Yeah, Joe, I’m standing there and the first class guys are boarding. I’m looking at this big guy that looked awfully familiar and it turned out to be Ben Lively. He was coming back to Cleveland to get checked out. I talked to Chris Antonette that same night and he confirmed that he’s coming back to Cleveland, he’s going to get checked by their medical team and they felt comfortable doing that because he’s not going to pitch on Tuesday or Wednesday in Cincinnati and Thursday’s an off day. So they had time to do it and Joe, he pitched Saturday through five scoreless innings and an eight to nothing win. It was his fifth straight victory, but he came out early and that was kind of a tip off after five scoreless innings. He comes out early after only throwing 65 pitches. You saw him having a animated conversation in the dugout.

(03:35):

I don’t think he wanted to come out, but I think they were trying to be really cautious after the game. Steven V said he tightened up during the long fifth inning when the Guardian scored five runs, sent 11 guys six runs and sent 11 guys to the plate. He tightened up during that, waiting for that inning to end. He went back out for the bottom of the fifth, but still was tight after that and so they just decided to take him out and so we’ll see what these tests have to say. No one would say anything specifically what was wrong with him.

Joe Noga (04:15):

Yeah, they didn’t give you a specific location or area of concern about the injury, whether it was lower body, upper body, anything, it was just that he was getting checked out, right?

Paul Hoynes (04:26):

Yeah, they said Lively said he tightened up, his legs got tight, his upper body got tight, he didn’t want to come out, but he was frustrated. He knew he could throw at least two or three, a couple more innings, but it was best to err on the side of caution. So right now there’s no specific, like you said, no specific area of injury that they’re looking at. At least that’s what they’re telling the media.

Joe Noga (04:56):

Right, and let’s not understate just how much and how important and how valuable and what Lively’s contribution to this starting rotation to this team has been since he made his debut in Boston back in April. This guy has just flat out rescued Cleveland’s starting rotation with his effort over 10 starts and to have him gone for any stretch of time could be potentially really big, really damaging for Cleveland.

Paul Hoynes (05:28):

Oh, no doubt about it. Joe. This guy was finding when you put on an old pair of jeans and finding a $20 bill in it, this is what this guy has done for Cleveland’s rotation. If he signed as a free agent over the winter, just above the major league minimum, he wins a job in a rotation. He goes, what? Six and two, he’s won five straight. In the absence of Shane Bieber who they lost two starts into the season with Tommy John’s surgery, he has really propped up the staff. He saved the staff like you said.

Joe Noga (06:11):

Yeah, and best case scenario, maybe he misses a start or two maybe depending on what the medical team says, if he has to go on the injured list for any length of time, what are the options that the guardians are looking at?

Paul Hoynes (06:29):

That’s a great question and we’ve seen Curry a couple times. One start very good. The next two starts not real good, so we don’t know what we’re getting. They don’t know what they’re getting with Curry, who was so consistent as a rookie last year, a little inconsistent this season. So you’ve got Curry, you’ve got Tyler Beatty down there who opened a year in the bullpen and was DFA and accepted the outright. He’s at Columbus, so he’s an experienced starter. He could come up if you go that route. I don’t know if any of the younger prospects are ready, Joe. They’ve got some guys in a ball and AA that have pitched well, but I don’t know if any of them are ready to make the leap to the big leagues

Joe Noga (07:23):

Right now. It’s not the kind of time where in years past there were 2, 3, 4 guys pushing to maybe be able to make that leap, but those guys are the Logan Allens and Tyler Tanner Bibe and Gavin Williams of the world, Gavin Williams probably still maybe a week or two away from even being a thought in that equation. He had a successful outing and threw 50 pitches in his last rehab start, but he probably needs one or two more rehab starts before they feel comfortable bringing him along. And Joey on the 40 man roster and would be an option in this situation is just coming back himself from an injury. He’s only made one rehab start for AAA and we will see how long it takes him to get up to speed and get built up in Columbus before he becomes an option. And they might need him at some point.

Paul Hoynes (08:23):

Yeah, Joe, and that’s the quandary. They’re in the pitching Rich Cleveland Indians minor league system. They just don’t have anybody in the pipeline right now. Everybody, like you said, their prospects are already in the big league rotation and the kind of second tier prospects are hurt. And Gavin Williams, what he’s made three rehab starts, he threw 50 pitches on Sunday for Columbus. I mean he would have to at least get up to, don’t you think, 80, 90, a hundred pitches before he could be ready to help the big league club. I don’t think they’re going to send him out there if he can’t throw between 80 and a hundred pitches,

Joe Noga (09:11):

And that’s probably two. Rehab starts away from getting to that level before he’s ready to go. We talked about this before we started recording here, but you and I were racking our brains trying to remember the last time Cleveland went out at the trade deadline and made a move to acquire an established veteran starter to add to the rotation for a potential postseason run. That might be the situation that they’re looking at here. If Lively has to miss any time, and even if Lively doesn’t have to miss an extended period of time, you probably feel more comfortable about yourself if you went out and made a move for an arm. This injury news is just sort of holding a gun to your head, forcing you to do it. We went back and tried to remember the last time they made a move like that and it comes out really the last significant trade was Uvaldo Jimenez from Colorado back in 2011 in Midseason, and the price at the time was pretty heavy.

Paul Hoynes (10:16):

The price was two. Number one picks. Drew Pomerance was one of them. Alex White I believe was the other number one pick and a couple other players throwing in. It’s a big gamble. It’s something that goes against Cleveland’s DNA because starting pitching is so expensive and costs so much to get on a free agent market and to make trades. That’s why they’ve spent so much time developing their own starters. So it really, depending on how Lively comes out of these exams, it really, Chris Antonette and Mike Chernoff are going to be in a tough situation because you can’t let the season slip by the boards, Joe. I mean they’re 20 games over 500. You’ve got to take advantage of this season because you don’t know if it’ll happen again.

Joe Noga (11:12):

Yeah, they have a lead in the division, they have the best bullpen in baseball. They have an offense that’s ranked in the top 10 in terms of run production and scoring. These are all things that point to yes, maybe shift from your organizational philosophy shift away from what you’ve been resisting doing over the last decade, and that’s adding at the starting rotation. It’s just what’s available and what the price tag is could have a major effect on this. I think if you make the decision right now to try and navigate it without making a move, you might send a message to people that you don’t want to send and that might not necessarily be true in the past. They’ve tried to make moves at the trade deadline that deal from a place of where they’ve got a surplus or whatever and then try to replenish things and make a balanced trade as opposed to giving up something.

(12:22):

I think the last time they gave up a lot in a trade might’ve been Andrew Miller when they gave up some high prospects in that regard like Clint Frazier and Justice Sheffield. So again, those trades seem to work out and those are the ones you remember, but if they were to look at some starting pictures and some names out there, I’ve got a list here of potential starting rotation pieces that could be available and could be on the market. It’s just how much are they willing to give away? What would you think? If I threw a name out there like Louis Severino from the Mets,

Paul Hoynes (13:03):

I liked Severino with the Yankees, he had a lot of injury problems. I think you could probably make that deal, but how much is he going to help you? And you would have to weigh it against the return of Gavin Williams, put him on the same track, but you’re going to need it. You’re going to have to have a body to round out that rotation, Joe. So I don’t think you’d have to consider it.

Joe Noga (13:34):

Yeah, that’s something if he’s available, that’s a trade partner in the Mets that has worked out for them in the past, so it’s always a possibility. The White Sox seem to be a team. Obviously they’re already out the race. They’ve lost 14 out of the last 16 games. Something crazy like that. They made a signing in the off season. Eric Fetty, two years, 15 million. He seems to be, he’s their best pitcher right now. What if making a deal with a division opponent is always kind of risky and costly? The price tag would be high on Eric Fetty, but the possibility that he could come in and give them exactly what they need,

Paul Hoynes (14:24):

He would be definitely what they need. The guardians have seen him twice, he’s beat him twice or he is pitched awfully, awfully well twice, and he would really stabilize that staff. But like you said, Joe, they don’t have a real good history of making trades with Chicago, the White Sox and whenever you trade within the division, the price always goes up. The White Sox know they have you over a barrel and they’re going to ask for the moon

Joe Noga (14:58):

And you can’t blame them for that. What about a guy if they look at Toronto and start trying to make trades, there could be a couple of arms that are available if Toronto decides to become sellers, Kevin Gosman and Usay Kaci. I think both of those guys, the price tag would be extremely high, but either one of them could fill innings and Gosman, of course a finalist for the Cy Young last year, his price tag will be extremely high. Kaci you might be able to get for a little bit less.

Paul Hoynes (15:42):

Yeah, those are two guys you’d have to kick the tires on. And it all depends where Toronto is. They’re kind of right on the edge of the race right now. I think they’re maybe a game or two below 500. Are they going to come on? It’s a team where you just don’t know how much, how long they’re going to keep, how much longer they’re going to keep that team together. So that would be a team where I think you’d be able to do some business with

Joe Noga (16:13):

Looking at Jordan Montgomery, a guy who was sort of the postseason hero last year and had waited until late in the off season to sign and he’s in Arizona right now. He has not had a really good season to this point, but you know that he has a history of maybe jumping around from club to club and catching lightning in a bottle at some point. He’s making 25 million this year with a player option for 2025. So the price tag is extremely high for somebody who’s not performing very well this season currently. What about Jordan Montgomery is a guy who sort of an X factor. You really don’t know what you’re getting with him.

Paul Hoynes (17:01):

Yeah, he has a good track record. Like you were saying last year in the postseason, he didn’t have a spring training. He was one of those guys that really signed late. So that’s probably affecting him his regular season right now. He would be a guy that might be able to find him himself late in the season and really help you during a push. So I think you’d have to look at him, but as Arizona I Arizona went to the World Series last year, are they going to give up a guy like that? So it’s, it’d be interesting to see how that would unfold.

Joe Noga (17:39):

And there are some names out there of guys who teams might not be willing to part with them even though they’re not necessarily performing up to their contract or their standards or whatever. What if Houston, here’s the scenario. What if Houston falls completely off the page and decides to start selling off pieces? What if they make Justin Verlander available? You think Justin Verlander could come to Cleveland and give you anything close to what Justin Verlander used to be?

Paul Hoynes (18:15):

That’s a name I wasn’t thinking of. What’s he making Like 40, 50 million a year.

Joe Noga (18:20):

He has a player option for 35 million if he pitches 140 innings, but he’s making 17 million this year.

Paul Hoynes (18:28):

Oh, okay. I was thinking what he was making with the Mets last year, right? Or whatever that was that contract. You’d have to see how much he has in the tank, what his plans are. I mean would he pick up the option next year? I don’t know. So that’s an interesting scenario, but you would definitely an experienced arm like that going down the stretch.

Joe Noga (18:57):

Yeah, he would immediately move to the front of your rotation as sort of your lead dog if you did. But again, that’s a little bit of crazy talk right now. I don’t think Justin Verlander is going anywhere. I think he finishes out the season in Houston either way. One last one I’ll throw out there. And this is a guy who the guardians have seen a couple of times already this year and has pitched very well against them. His price tag would probably be pretty high, but in terms of prospect return, but they could manage him and build around him. Jose Soriano with the Angels, his arm is electric. He’s pumping 98 on his fastball and the guardians have seen him up close already twice a lot to about him. What if Jose Soriano was available, could you go out and get him?

Paul Hoynes (19:52):

Yeah, and that’s a good name, Joe. I mean he pitched really well in Cleveland against him. I think he didn’t pitch as well out there at Angel Stadium. I think they may have beat him out there, but an interesting name kind of still fairly young guy that throws really hard, like you were saying, the angels are always in search of pitching. I don’t know if they’d let him go, but the way their season is going, I think they’re going to have to regroup. So maybe, yeah, that’s a name to remember. But Joe, when we talk about who would you give up if you’re the angels, who are you looking at? Who do you want off Cleveland’s roster?

Joe Noga (20:35):

Well, and you’ve got to wonder what do the angels look like in terms of their middle infield prospects? Because if a team is looking for a shortstop or a second baseman, the guardians can make a deal. They’ve got plenty at all levels of the minor league system, but maybe one of the guys who’s maybe a guy like a George Valera who in the past had been untouchable. There’s no place for him right now at the major league level. There’s nowhere where you could put him. Maybe you cut him loose and try and get some pitching in return for George Valera and package him with one or two of your middle infield prospects.

Paul Hoynes (21:21):

That’s a good idea. What about Jonathan Rodriguez? What’s a guy got like 19 rbis in his last four or five games

Joe Noga (21:28):

And that’s a good thing. I mean, you sent him back down and he decided to, maybe the light switch went off and he’s trying to work his way back to the majors. Maybe this is a guy that you can send away and get something in return for ‘em, but you’ve got to do it now. You’ve got to do it before it gets too close to the trade deadline and the price tags on all of these pictures start to go way up.

Paul Hoynes (21:54):

The problem with that is, Joe, with the draft being where it is, and then the front offices are concentrating on the draft now, but then they’ve got to switch gears as the trading deadline comes up on August. So they put all the trade talks on hold to get ready for the draft and then as soon as the draft ends, then they kind of rekindle all those trade talks. So with the draft being added to the all-star break and being moved back a month, that has really kind of changed the dynamic and the ebb and flow of the trade talks and the conversations between teams.

Joe Noga (22:42):

Well, maybe the guardians are in a better spot with that because there isn’t as much question about who’s going to be available to them with that first pick. Everybody’s available to them with that first pick right now, so that eliminates at least some of the guessing work that they have to do and maybe they can focus a little bit more, but everybody else, it takes two to make a deal. And I guess everybody else is going through all those steps behind them right now. So that may be why it’d be harder to make a deal before that draft takes place. I want to remind our listeners if you want to hear our takes or get our takes on some of these draft prospects, some of these trade prospects, everything going on with the roster, everything going on with the team Guardian subtext is the best way to do so.

(23:36):

Go to cleveland.com/subtext or send a text message to 2 1 6 2 0 8 4 3 4 6 to get text messages sent to your phone. It’s three ninety nine a month. Hoey and I, we send a couple of messages a day just giving our takes on what’s going on with the guardians. It’s a great way to fill up your off day Hoey. Looking ahead to Cincinnati, obviously this is a young ball club that can give a team problems, especially with their lineup, especially with La la Cruz who impacts the game in a lot of ways. He does it sort of like Jose Ramirez without the consistency, but he’s really an electric player, runs the bases like his hairs on fire, can hit for power, can put the ball in play a little bit. Does strike out a lot. Just looking ahead to that series, what are the guardians in for when they get to Cincinnati?

Paul Hoynes (24:37):

Yeah, they’re going to be, they’re face a pretty, a hot club. Joe The Reds just had their seven game winning streaks snapped, so they’ve been playing better. They didn’t get off to the greatest start, but like you said, a younger team with a lot of young talent. Tristan McKenzie’s going to start two Tuesday night. He’ll face Hunter Green and then Tanner Bibe is going on Wednesday against Nick. How do you say

Joe Noga (25:08):

Nick? Lolo.

Paul Hoynes (25:09):

Lolo, yeah. So another Lefthander. They’ll be facing another Lefthander in Lolo.

Joe Noga (25:15):

Yeah, a couple of great matchups pitching matchups there in Cincinnati. Should be a lot of fun to watch. Alright, Zi, enjoy the rest of your off day. We’ll check in with you ahead of tomorrow’s start in Cincinnati and we’ll talk to you then.

Paul Hoynes (25:30):

Good deal, Joe.

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